The truth behind the millennial "midlife crisis" | The Gray Area
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在“The Gray Area”的一期节目中,客座主持人John Gwynn Hill与Emile Niazzi进行了对话。Emile Niazzi是《The Cut》的专栏作家,主要撰写关于工作和母亲身份的文章。Niazzi最近探讨了千禧一代的中年危机如何以不同方式表现,她将在这次对话中进一步深入探讨这个话题。
Niazzi解释了她个人为何被这个话题所吸引,因为她本人已年过40,并且观察到她这一代、X世代以及她父母那一代人在中年经历上存在鲜明对比。她认为,由于经济、文化和生育危机交织在一起,千禧一代正面临一个“特别不稳定的人生阶段”,她将自己定位为“煤矿里的金丝雀”,为这些变化敲响警钟。
对话首先审视了“四分之一人生危机”,Hill描述他25岁时曾经历这种危机,表现为因未能达到人生中预期的里程碑而不断哭泣。Niazzi对此深有同感,回忆起她大学毕业后在新闻业求职、支付房租和处理感情方面的挣扎。他们讨论了对人生成就的“恐慌”似乎越来越年轻化,因为传统上作为成年标志的——比如搬出去住、获得稳定工作和实现财务自由——对年轻一代来说变得越来越难以企及。这些传统标志的瓦解导致了对成就的更早恐慌。
Niazzi区分了四分之一人生危机和中年危机,指出尽管情绪可能相似,但中年危机的风险要高得多。有了孩子、抵押贷款和更多责任,失足意味着“会失去更多、更多”,而25岁时,可能还可以搬回家住或依靠室友。
她的专栏采访了像Joy这样的人,Joy觉得她无法负担父母曾为她提供的生活方式,这凸显了一种代际倒退感。Niazzi采访的受访者中普遍存在的共同点是对未来,尤其是招聘中的年龄歧视,感到极度恐惧。她讲述了一个50岁女性的故事,她努力找工作,直到被建议从简历中删除所有日期以隐藏年龄。这种恐惧延伸到退休,许多人设想工作到死,导致了Niazzi所说的“存在主义绝望之池”。
讨论转向了这场危机仅仅是关于衰老,还是很大程度上是“晚期资本主义”的一种症状。Niazzi肯定地说这是一个重要因素,因为曾经普遍存在的稳定、提供养老金的长期工作如今已十分罕见。这种经济不稳定,加上对错失核心人生体验(如生育或实现情感独立)的感受,共同造成了一种独特的危机。与前几代人通过动摇稳定的生活来找回青春不同,千禧一代常常在他们的危机中“寻找成年”。
针对千禧一代的关键性事件被指出:高中时期的9/11事件,许多人刚进入职场时遭遇的2008年金融危机,科技泡沫/破裂,以及媒体等行业的崩溃。这些“多米诺骨牌效应”,即“前进一步,后退十步”,导致了里程碑的延迟——婚姻、生育、置业、退休规划和学生贷款偿还——以及普遍缺乏经济稳定性。
他们还探讨了外表所扮演的角色。千禧一代在同龄时往往比前几代人看起来更年轻,这促成了“延长的早期成年期”,但也在这一个越来越痴迷于青春的社会中,制造了保持年轻的压力。Niazzi质疑这种痴迷的社会影响,特别是关于职场中老年女性的看法,以及如果生育率下降,未来社会护理需求被忽视的问题。
“夹心一代”的困境被突出强调,千禧一代既要照顾年迈的父母,又要抚养年幼的孩子。Niazzi分享了她父亲最近心脏病发作的亲身经历,凸显了成年责任的转变。这种双重照护角色在经济、情感和身体上都极具挑战,而较小的居住空间又阻碍了多代同堂的生活,使问题更加复杂。
Niazzi承认过去常常被理想化,但她指出,像她母亲那样在26岁前就有了三个孩子的前几代人,很早就面临巨大的责任,这可能导致她们在中年时寻求失落的青春。相反,千禧一代在经历了较长时间的“虚度光阴”(effing around)和以自我为中心之后,现在却在寻求稳定和“真正的成年”。
对话触及了自我实现的概念,而非僵硬地勾选所有传统的成年标志。Niazzi强调,无论是职业、伴侣关系、子女还是置业,只要能带来快乐和目标,任何一个标志都足够了。然而,对许多人来说,被排除在*所有*这些标志之外,则会造成持续的危机和不满循环。
展望未来,Niazzi对她子女这一代人表达了希望和担忧,尤其是在气候变化和人工智能对就业的影响方面。然而,她称生育孩子是“一种乐观行为”,并相信千禧一代的特点在于他们积极争取一个更美好世界的能力。她在Z世代对工作和界限的态度中看到了希望,相信未来几代人将重塑劳动力市场,优先考虑个人需求。最终,Niazzi希望她的中年危机过去之后,能为她不断发展的自我和生活带来“平静”与安适。
In an episode of "The Gray Area," guest host John Gwynn Hill speaks with Emile Niazzi, a columnist at The Cut who writes about work and motherhood. Niazzi recently explored how the midlife crisis manifests differently for millennials, a topic she delves into further in this conversation.
Niazzi explains her personal draw to the subject, being over 40 herself, and observing a stark contrast in midlife experiences between her generation, Gen X, and her parents' generation. She views millennials as facing a "particularly precarious stage of life" due to intertwined economic, cultural, and fertility crises, positioning herself as a "canary in the coal mine" sounding an alarm about these shifts.
The conversation begins by examining the "quarter-life crisis," which Hill describes experiencing at 25, marked by constant crying over not meeting life's perceived milestones. Niazzi fully relates, recalling her struggles to find work in journalism, pay rent, and navigate romance post-college. They discuss how the "freak out" about life achievements seems to be starting younger and younger, as traditional markers of adulthood—like moving out, securing stable employment, and achieving financial freedom—have become increasingly elusive for younger generations. This collapse of traditional markers leads to earlier panic about accomplishments.
Niazzi differentiates the quarter-life crisis from the midlife crisis, noting that while emotions can be similar, the stakes are significantly higher in midlife. With children, mortgages, and more responsibilities, losing footing means "a lot, a lot more to lose" compared to being 25 and potentially able to move back home or rely on roommates.
Her column features individuals like Joy, who feels she can't afford the lifestyle her parents provided, highlighting a sense of generational regression. Common threads among those Niazzi interviewed include significant fear about the future, particularly regarding ageism in hiring. She recounts a story of a 50-year-old woman struggling to find work until advised to remove all dates from her resume to hide her age. This fear extends to retirement, with many envisioning working until they die, leading to what Niazzi terms a "pool of existential despair."
The discussion pivots to whether this crisis is merely about aging or largely a symptom of "late-stage capitalism." Niazzi affirms it's a significant factor, as stable, long-term employment with pensions, once common, is now rare. This economic instability, coupled with feelings of missing out on core human experiences like having children or achieving emotional independence, creates a unique crisis. Unlike previous generations seeking to recapture youth by shaking up a stable life, millennials often find themselves "searching for adulthood in their crisis."
Key defining events for millennials are identified: 9/11 in high school, the 2008 financial crisis hitting just as many entered the workforce, the tech boom/bust, and the collapse of industries like media. These "domino effects" of "one step forward, 10 steps back" have led to delayed milestones—marriage, children, homeownership, retirement planning, and student loan repayment—and a general lack of economic stability.
They also explore how physical appearance plays a role. Millennials often look younger than previous generations at the same age, contributing to a "prolonged early adulthood" but also creating pressure to maintain youth in a society increasingly obsessed with it. Niazzi questions the societal implications of this obsession, particularly regarding how aging women are perceived in the workforce and the neglect of future societal care needs if fewer people have children.
The "sandwich generation" struggle is highlighted, with millennials caring for both aging parents and young children. Niazzi shares her own experience of her father's recent heart attack, underscoring the shifting adult responsibilities. This dual caretaking role is financially, emotionally, and physically taxing, compounded by smaller living spaces that hinder multi-generational living.
Niazzi acknowledges that the past is often idealized, but notes that previous generations, like her mother who had three children by 26, faced immense responsibilities early on, potentially leading them to seek a lost youth in midlife. Conversely, millennials, having had an extended period of "effing around" and self-focus, now seek stability and "real adulthood."
The conversation touches on the concept of self-actualization over rigidly checking off all traditional adult markers. Niazzi emphasizes that whatever marker—career, partnership, children, homeownership—brings joy and purpose is sufficient. However, for many, being locked out of *all* these markers creates a persistent cycle of crisis and resentment.
Looking to the future, Niazzi expresses both hope and fear for her children's generation, especially concerning climate change and AI's impact on jobs. Yet, she calls having children "an act of optimism" and believes millennials are defined by their ability to actively strive for a better world. She finds hope in Gen Z's attitude toward work and boundaries, believing future generations will reshape the workforce to prioritize personal needs. Ultimately, Niazzi hopes the other side of her midlife crisis brings "peace" and comfort in her evolving self and life.
摘要
Is "adulthood" a moving target? For millennials, hitting the milestones of the past—homeownership, secure careers, and financial independence—feels tougher than ever. We aren't just having our individual midlife crises; we are simultaneously navigating an economic, cultural, and existential crisis, too.
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Guest host Jonquilyn Hill sits down with Amil Niazi, columnist at The Cut, to explore why this stage of life feels so precarious. From the domino effect of the 2008 financial crisis and the collapse of the traditional career path, to the pressures of the "sandwich generation" — caretaking for both children and aging parents — we break down why the millennial experience is fundamentally different from generations past.
00:00 Intro
01:43 The millennial economic domino effect
04:50 Redefining adulthood
07:45 Quarterlife vs midlife crisis
14:04 Is it late-stage capitalism?
21:42 The sandwich generation
38:24 Choosing optimism
Host: Jonquilyn Hill, host of Explain It To Me
Guest: Amil Niazi, columnist The Cut
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中英文字稿
9-11事件发生时,我们大多数人还在上高中,那是一个巨大时刻,对政治、文化、经济产生了深远影响。然后到了2008年的金融危机,很多人刚刚好不容易站稳脚跟,找到稳定的工作,刚大学毕业。结果突然就遇到了大规模裁员。就像多米诺骨牌效应一样,前进一步,后退十步。我觉得正是这种情况导致了我们现在的局面,很多人依然无法控制自己的经济生活。
▶ 英文原文 ⏱
9-11 happened when most of us were in high school, and that was a massive moment that shifted politics, culture, the economy. And then you have the 2008 financial crisis, just as many of us were finally getting our footing, getting into secure jobs, coming out of college. And then boom, you know, you're hit with mass layoffs. And so it's that domino effect of one step forward, 10 steps back that I think has led to where we are right now, which is for many of us still not having a handle on the economics of our lives.
欢迎来到灰色地带。我是约翰·格温·希尔,代替肖恩·伊林主持节目。艾米尔·尼阿齐是《The Cut》的专栏作家。她常常撰写与工作和母亲身份有关的文章。不久前,她写了一篇文章,探讨千禧一代的中年危机与以往有何不同。随着时代的变迁,各代人的老龄化过程似乎在发生变化。所以我邀请她来谈一谈成年标志的变化、千禧一代永恒的乐观精神,以及为什么最终一切可能都要归咎于后期资本主义的问题。
▶ 英文原文 ⏱
Welcome to the gray area. I'm John Gwynn Hill, sitting in for Sean Illing. Emile Niazzi is a columnist at The Cut. She spends a lot of time writing about work and motherhood. And not too long ago, she wrote a piece examining how the midlife crisis is different for millennials. Aging seems to change with each generation. So I invited her on to talk about the changing markers of adulthood, the eternal optimism of the millennial generation, and why, at the end of the day, it might just be late-stage capitalism's fault.
我很高兴有这次对话,希望你也喜欢听。Emile Niazzi,欢迎来到节目。感谢你邀请我。你是《The Cut》的专栏作家,写关于母职和工作交织的内容。几个月前,你写了一篇非常有趣的专栏文章,题为《末世中的中年危机》,事实上,你对于生活的这个特定阶段写了很多。为什么你对探讨当下这个时刻的中年阶段情有独钟?
▶ 英文原文 ⏱
I had a really great time having this conversation, and I hope you enjoy listening to it. Emile Niazzi, welcome to the show. Thanks for having me. You're a columnist at The Cut, where you write about motherhood and how that intersects with work. And a few months ago, you wrote this really interesting column called Midlife Crisising in the End Times, and you've actually written quite a bit about this particular stage in life. Why is midlife in our current moment something you're drawn to explore?
好吧,首先,我现在已经四十多岁了。所以很自然地,我开始思考自己的人生阶段,并将这些思考写下来,记录我的生活体验。但同时,我也观察我的父母,以及上一代人,比如说X世代。我属于年长的千禧一代,而我们所经历的中年似乎与他们非常不同,而且我相信Z世代将来会有非常不同的体验。
▶ 英文原文 ⏱
Well, first of all, I just am 40-plus now. So naturally, you know, I'm in this phase of life, and I'm thinking about it, and this is kind of what I write about is my experience of life. But also, I look at my parents, I look at the generation, even just one above me, you know, Gen Xers. I'm an elder millennial, and it appears to be a very different experience of midlife that we're having, and certainly that I think Gen Z is going to have.
我真的觉得很重要的一点是,人们需要明白,我们不仅仅处于中年危机,还面临经济危机、文化危机和生育危机。现在发生的很多事情正在改变我们对人生这个阶段的体验。由于所有这些因素,这个阶段显得尤其不稳定。我就像矿井里的金丝雀,发出警告:救救我,我觉得这一切跟过去大不一样了。
▶ 英文原文 ⏱
And so I just really think it's important that people understand that not only are we in a midlife crisis, but we are in just like an economic crisis, a cultural crisis, a crisis of fertility. There's so much going on that is altering our experience of this stage of life, and it feels like a particularly precarious stage of life because of all of those things. And so I just, I'm sort of like the canary in the coal mine sounding the bell going like, help, I think that this, this is very different than it used to be.
我们会深入探讨中年危机,但首先我想谈一谈另一种危机,那就是人生的“四分之一危机”(quarter life crisis)。先简单介绍一下我自己。十年前,我25岁,那时我常常因为没有达到心中觉得自己应该达成的目标而哭泣,觉得自己没有取得应有的进展。你在那个年龄时有过类似的经历吗?
▶ 英文原文 ⏱
We're going to dig into the midlife crisis even more, but first I want to go back to another crisis, and that's the quarter life crisis. To tell you a little bit about myself, a decade ago, I was 25, and what I remember about being 25 is crying all the time about not being where I felt like I was supposed to be in life, that I wasn't making the progress that I was supposed to. Did you go through something similar around that age?
百分之百没错。我完全同意。你知道,当你刚走出校园时,你会对自己的未来有一些期待,对吧?你会想,好吧,我已经掌握了技能,拥有了知识,现在准备好迎接我的第一份成人工作,准备好承担更多责任,正式步入成年生活。然而,对我们中的很多人来说,至少对我而言,我在自己的领域找工作时遇到了困难。我学的是新闻,但在这个领域找工作却很艰难。我很难独自承担房租,感情生活也不太顺利,感到很受挫。
▶ 英文原文 ⏱
One hundred percent. Absolutely. I felt, you know, you're coming out of school, you have this expectation of where you should be, right? You're, you're coming out of school, you're thinking, okay, I've got the skills now, I have the knowledge, I'm ready for my first adult job, I'm ready to take on more responsibility to have, you know, my first foray into adulthood. And for so many of us, for me anyways, I struggled to find work in my field, I studied journalism, I struggled to be able to pay my rent by myself, I was struggling romantically, you know, I just was, I was hurting.
我感觉自己并不在我想要去的地方,也不在我认为应该在的地方。我觉得这可能是成年初期的第一个真正标志,很多人可能都会经历这样的危机,我当然也经历过。我想到很多关于变老的网上讨论,我发现人们对年龄的担忧越来越年轻化。比如,如果你30岁还没做到某件事,那你就完了;如果你25岁还没有做到,那就完了;如果你21岁还没有做到,那就更完了。
▶ 英文原文 ⏱
And it felt like, I just wasn't where, where I wanted to be or where I thought I was supposed to be. And I think that that's that, you know, as the kind of first real marker of adulthood around that age, I think, yeah, a lot of us probably go through crisis. I certainly did. I certainly did. I think about a lot of the conversations I see online about aging. And I think I see people getting progressively younger and younger about the freak out. Like it'll be, oh, if you're not doing this by 30, you're cooked. If you're not doing this by 25, you're cooked. If you're not doing this by 21, it's so over for you.
我们现在活得越来越久,但我不太清楚,感觉现在这种“螺旋”似乎在更年轻时就开始了。是的,我刚刚在一个早间电视节目中听到他们谈论成年标志,以及这些标志是如何在每一代人中发生变化的。对我来说,那些标志就像是获得第一份真正的工作,租到第一间公寓,从父母家中搬出去,买辆车,开始构建那些我们认为是成年的基础方面。
▶ 英文原文 ⏱
We're living so much longer, but I don't know, it feels like the spiral is starting to happen even younger and younger these days. Yeah, I was just listening to a morning television show talking about markers of adulthood and how they have shifted for every generation. And, you know, for me, it was like getting my first real job, getting my first apartment, moving out of my parents' home, you know, getting a car, just starting to build those kind of like foundational aspects of what we would consider adulthood.
开始觉得自己正在走向独立是一种自然的进步。但是,我发现许多比我年轻的人往往不再搬出父母家,或者要到三十多岁才搬出去。那么,如果不是通过搬出父母家或找到能让你建立经济自由的工作,你又是在什么时候开始成为一个成年人,什么时候开始感觉自己是一个成年人呢?
▶ 英文原文 ⏱
And there was a natural kind of progression to start to feel like, you know, you were moving towards independence. What I see, lots of people younger than me are often not moving out at all, or they're moving out into their 30s. And so when do you start to become an adult, when do you start to feel like an adult, if it's not moving out of your parents' home, if it's not finding that kind of employment that allows you to build financial freedom?
你知道的,如果你从事不稳定的工作,比如自由职业或者持续做零工,就很难获得稳固的经济基础,从而让自己觉得已经成年。因此,我认为这些标志的消失让我们许多人越来越早地对自己能否有所成就感到恐慌。当然,我认为永远不会“太晚”。我在社交媒体上有一个我很喜欢的经历,我半开玩笑地问自己,40岁去读医学院会不会太晚了。结果,我收到了数百条回复,有的人说他们45岁回去读法学院,或者50岁去读医学院等。这些故事告诉我们,要成为理想中的自己,永远都不算太晚。
▶ 英文原文 ⏱
You know, if you have precarious work, if you're freelancing, if you're consistently doing gig work, it's really difficult to get that solid financial footing to be able to then consider yourself an adult. And so I think that the collapse of those markers is causing a lot of us to panic earlier and earlier about what we can accomplish. I think, of course, like, you're never cooked. It's never too late. I, you know, one of my favorite experiences I've had on social media was I sort of jokingly said, like, is it too late for me to go to medical school at 40? And the replies were there were like hundreds of replies from people who were like, I went back to law school at 45, or I went to medical school at 50 or, you know, just like, it is never too late to be the person that you want to be.
然而,由于我们正经历非常艰难的经济时期,真的,很难觉得自己能够做到那些事情,比如翻过新的一页。我认为,这使得人们越来越难以感觉到一切皆有可能,因为往往会陷入“一切皆不可能”的心态中。你认为四分之一人生危机和中年危机有什么区别?它们感觉一样吗?它们是否不同?这种不同是因为你的身份,还是因为世界的状况?我很好奇它们是如何对比的。无论处于人生的哪个阶段,这都不是对感受的评判,因为无论处在哪个阶段,这都像是一种危机。
▶ 英文原文 ⏱
However, because we are living through really difficult economic times, really, you know, it just is harder to feel like you can do those things like you can turn the page. And I think it makes it more and more difficult to feel like anything is possible, because often you get stuck in the mindset of like nothing is possible. What do you think the difference is between that quarter life crisis and that midlife crisis? Does it feel the same? Are they different? Are they different because of, I don't know who you are? Are they different because of the state of the world? I'm, I'm curious, how they compare for me, and I did this is not a judgment on what it feels like, because it feels no matter what stage you're at, like, it is a crisis.
对我来说,中年危机的压力更大,因为我有孩子,我要还房贷。我不仅仅为自己负责,还要对许多人负责。如果我搞砸了,失去的也会更多。25岁时,如果事情不顺利,或者我被解雇了,我还可以回家住或者找个室友。当你只需要对自己负责时,手头拮据的生活也能过得去。但是现在,我没法让孩子们连续几个月吃泡面。如果失去房子,我无法带着一家五口挤到我妈的公寓里。这真的是很不一样的情况。
▶ 英文原文 ⏱
But the midlife crisis, for me, the stakes feel a lot higher, because I have children, I have a mortgage. I am responsible for many, many more people than just myself. And if I mess up, I have a lot, a lot more to lose. Whereas when I was 25, if it didn't work out for me, if I did get laid off, I could always move back home or I, you know, I could get a roommate. You can stretch your dollar in a very different way when you're just responsible for yourself and you're sort of used to living within sort of constricted means. Now, I can't just feed my kids ramen for months on end. You know, if I lose my home, then I, it's, I can't bring my family of five into my mom's apartment. It's just, it's very different.
所以,这些情感往往非常相似。对我来说,情况有所不同,中年危机中有更多东西要失去。但毫无疑问,这其中有很多情感上的相似之处。我在这篇专栏中发现的一件有趣的事情是,你和很多人进行了交谈,他们的年龄从三十多岁到四十出头,包括一个叫Joy的人,她的经历与她母亲在同龄时的经历非常不同。你能给我们讲讲她的故事吗?我谈过的许多人从小生活条件优越。
▶ 英文原文 ⏱
And so the emotions are often very similar. For me, the stakes are, are, are different. And there's, for me, more to lose, uh, in the midlife crisis. But there are a lot of emotional parallels for sure. One of the interesting things I find in this column is that you talk to quite a few people who are ranging from their mid thirties to their early forties, including, um, joy, who is having a very different experience than her own mother had at the same age. Can you tell us a little bit about her? For so many of the people I spoke to, they had grown up in a comfortable way.
嗯,你知道,他们能够参与课外活动。而且,看起来他们的父母能支付账单、买房子,还能存钱养老。乔伊看到她父母的家时想,我根本无法负担得起我父母给我的那种生活方式。我觉得很让人心碎的是,以往每一代人都比他们的父母过得更好,并在他们父母奠定的基础上发展,而现在我们似乎在倒退,过得更糟糕,我们正在以一种非常不同寻常的方式挣扎。
▶ 英文原文 ⏱
Uh, you know, they were able to have extracurricular experiences. They, their parents seemingly, um, were able to pay the bills, buy a house, you know, afford to put money away for retirement. Um, and joy was like looking at her parents' home and thinking, I, there's no way I could ever afford the lifestyle that my parents afforded me. Um, and I just think there's something really heartbreaking about feeling like, whereas every generation before us did better than their parents and built upon, uh, the foundation that their parents had created, that now we're regressing and we're doing worse and that, um, you know, we're struggling in a very different way.
在与我交谈时,她非常激动,因为她无法拥有同样的体验。这不仅仅是生活方式的问题,我认为更是因为一种被排除在某种体验之外的感觉,而这种体验是许多前几代人理所当然拥有的。在你与他人交谈时,是否也发现他们的故事有类似的模式?很多人对未来感到恐惧,这种恐惧非常真实和强烈。
▶ 英文原文 ⏱
And so joy in speaking to me, you know, she was just so emotional about the fact that, um, yeah, she's just not able to, to have the same. It's not just about lifestyle. I think it's about the idea that you're locked out of an experience that, um, so many generations before you, uh, took for granted. Are there any other threads that the folks who you talk to share that their stories kind of have the same patterns? A lot of fear, a lot of fear about the future in a way that was like very tangible, um, and visceral.
我认为四分之一人生危机与中年危机的不同之处在于:当你25岁时,有太多的道路向你敞开,充满了各种可能性。这并不是说在你35岁、40岁或45岁时就没有可能性了,但现实情况是,可选择的道路变少了。在雇佣过程中有很多评判和限制。我最近听了一个来自英国的广播节目,其中有一位50岁的女性,她在时尚、艺术和咨询领域工作了很长时间,一直以来都有比她能接受的更多的工作机会,并且做得非常出色。
▶ 英文原文 ⏱
I think another thing about the quarter life crisis that I think is different than the midlife crisis is like, you know, when you're 25, there are so many paths open to you and there's so much, um, possibility. And it's not that there isn't possibility when you're, you know, 35 or 40 or 45, but the reality is there, there are fewer paths. There is a lot of, uh, judgment and limitation in hiring. Uh, I, I was listening to, uh, a radio show from out of the UK recently and this woman, uh, 50 year old woman who had, um, worked for a very long time in fashion and art. And, and consulting and she'd always had more work than she could take on, done really well.
高收入、高成就者。现在她破产了,没有工作,因为她是一名50岁的女性,所以找不到工作。她的朋友最终对她说,把简历上的年份全部去掉,不管是上学的年份还是工作的年份,因为你的简历看起来太"老"了,你之所以没有被聘用是因为年龄问题。在我为这篇文章采访的人中,他们都有这样的担忧:如果被裁员,或者失去了一个或几个合约,他们将找不到其他工作来替代。而当你25岁时,你可能会觉得,哦,我失去了那个客户,但给我一点时间,我可以弥补回来,因为当你25岁时,人们会以非常不同的方式看待你,你出门在外、与人交流时的状态和45岁相比非常不同。这是一个非常常见的问题。
▶ 英文原文 ⏱
High flyer, high earner. She's now broke and she's unemployed and she cannot get hired because she's a 50 year old woman. And her friend finally said, um, take all the years off of your resume, the year that you went to school, the year that you were like, just take all of the dates out of your resume. Because you're not getting hired because of how old you are. Your resume is reading as too old. And so in talking to the people for this piece that I wrote, there was that fear that if they are laid off or if they lose one of their contracts or enough of their contracts, they're not going to be able to replace that work with anything. And whereas when you're 25, I think you, you sort of go, okay, I, you know, I lost that client, but give me a little bit of time and I'll make that up because you know, you're out there, you're talking to people, people see you in a very different way when you're 25 and hustling than when you're, I think 45 and hustling. So that was a, that was a, that was a really consistent thread.
然后,这种恐惧感也存在:好吧,是的,我现在可以支付账单,我现在可以养活我的家人,但未来会怎样呢?我还能有多少健康的工作年限?如果有一天我不能再工作了,会发生什么?他们中很多人的退休计划就是工作到死,或者在岗位上倒下。这很悲哀。我笑了,因为面对这些事情,必须带着幽默感,否则就会陷入深深的存在性绝望。但现实是,我和很多人聊过,他们对退休感到非常恐惧。同时,我觉得很有趣的是,这个经济问题总是会被提到。一方面,随着年龄的增长,我有时会坐下来想,哇,死亡最终会降临到我们所有人头上。是的,是的等等等等,想一想确实让人感到害怕。
▶ 英文原文 ⏱
And then also that fear of like, okay, yeah, I can cover my bills for now. I can feed my family for now, but what does the future look like? Like what, how many able-bodied working years do I have left? And what happens like when I can't work anymore? A lot of their retirement plans were like work till I die or, you know what I mean? Like drop down on the job. And that's sad. Like I laugh, but, and we laughed about it because you kind of have to have a sense of humor about these things or you'll, you know, fall into a pool of existential despair. But truly retirement is really, really scary to a lot of the people I spoke to. And yeah, you know, I think it's interesting how this economic piece keeps coming up because on one hand, I think with aging, I don't know, it's freaky. It freaks me out to think about sometimes I sit and I'm like, oh my gosh, mortality, death comes for us all. Yeah. Yeah, et cetera, et cetera. It's just, it's, it's scary to think about.
另一方面,当我听到有关退休和金钱的事情时,当我听到“哦,我必须永远工作”这样的说法时,我就会想,这是不是晚期资本主义的问题?现在很多人正在经历的中年危机,究竟多少只是典型的“哦,我们老了,得买辆法拉利,得有点慌张”的表现,又有多少是因为我们所处的社会不可持续?确实如此。很多人对晚期资本主义感到焦虑,因为现在对很多人来说,通过做某个工作来维持生活变得不再可能。过去,很多老一辈的人、很多人的父母可以在同一个工作岗位上工作30多年,享受退休金,对未来充满信心和安全感。
▶ 英文原文 ⏱
And on the other hand, when I hear about retirement, when I hear about this money piece, when I hear, oh, well, I just have to work forever. It's kind of like, oh, is this just late stage capitalism? Like how much of the midlife crisis that folks are having now is just, you know, the typical, hey, we're getting older. Gotta go buy a Ferrari, gotta freak out a little bit versus, oh, the society we're living in is not sustainable. Yes, totally. Like, it's definitely a lot of anguish about late stage capitalism, about the fact that like, you, it's no longer possible for a lot of people to sustain a living by doing X, Y, Z. A lot of the older folks, a lot of people's parents could work a job, the same job for 30 plus years, have a pension, retire, have this sense of confidence in what tomorrow looked like and what tomorrow would bring.
对于很多人来说,确实缺少了一些东西。但你说得对,除了经济因素之外,还有另一种感受,让人觉得自己错过了一种非常核心的人生体验——比如在人生的不同阶段中成熟成长。有很多人因为觉得负担不起孩子而选择不生育,这让他们觉得有些错失感。还有的人一直和父母同住,感觉错过了独自生活并建立情感独立的经验。这两种情况结合在一起,使得这种危机与“我在同一份工作上呆了很久感到无聊”或者“和同一个伴侣一起生活了很久感到无聊,所以我要去打耳洞穿皮夹克”这样的危机有所不同。
▶ 英文原文 ⏱
And there, that is lacking for a lot of people, but you're right, apart from the economic piece, there is this other feeling of, um, have I missed out on like a really core, uh, human experience where, uh, you know, I get to mature into these different stages of life. A lot, there were people who felt they could not afford to have kids, um, so they didn't, and so they felt a little bit like they'd missed out on that, or they continue to live at home and so they feel they're missing out on the experience of living by yourself and building that, that sense of, um, emotional independence. So it's these two things in, in tandem that I think, um, make this crisis feel different from, um, hey, I've had the same job forever and it's boring and I've had the same wife forever and it's boring and so I'm going to pierce my ear and buy a leather jacket.
就像这样,我和谈过的人都没有觉得他们需要打破自己稳定的生活来重新感受年轻。反而,他们似乎是在危机中寻找成熟。这听起来像是千禧一代的中年危机与过去的中年危机有明显的区别。你认为有哪些事件定义了千禧一代呢?或者说,现在是什么影响了你和你所谈过的人对生活的看法?我想,这些事件就像多米诺骨牌一样,从我们的童年晚期和成年早期开始产生影响。显然,9·11事件发生在我们大多数人高中阶段末期,那是一个巨大的时刻,改变了政治、文化、经济,改变了我们与他人对话的方式,以及整个国家对安全和他者的看法。
▶ 英文原文 ⏱
Like that, that it, that it by no means did anyone I spoke with feel like, um, they had to shake up a stable life in order to feel young again. It was almost like, uh, they were searching for adulthood in their crisis. It sounds like there is this clear difference between the millennial midlife crisis and the midlife crisis of yore. What do you think the events are that have defined the millennial generation? Like what is shaping the outlook that you and the people you spoke to have about life right now? I mean, I think there are these like domino, um, events from our, I would say like late childhood, early adulthood, you know, obviously 9-11 happened when most of us were in high school, uh, just at the tail end. And that was a massive moment that shifted politics, culture, the economy, the way we spoke to each other, the way the entire country looked at things like security and, um, otherhood.
然后到了2008年金融危机,就在我们很多人终于站稳脚跟,找到稳定工作的时候,可以说是我们这一代刚从大学毕业进入职场的时候。突然之间,遇到大规模的裁员。原本可以开始积累储蓄的人,不得不开始动用储蓄,因为他们被解雇或者找不到工作。金融创伤是真实存在的,并且产生了巨大的影响。
▶ 英文原文 ⏱
And then you have the 2008 financial crisis, just as many of us were finally getting our footing, getting into secure jobs, coming, you know, again, a generation coming out of college. And then boom, you know, you're hit with mass layoffs. Um, people who would have otherwise started to build that nest egg are now having to draw on it because they're laid off or they can't get work. Um, and, and, and it, financial scarring is real and it's had a big impact.
然后,你知道,有科技行业的兴衰起伏,还有整个媒体行业的崩溃。我们从事过的许多行业要么消失了,要么在我们刚开始发展的时候就发生了转变。这种情况就像多米诺骨牌效应,一步向前,十步向后。我认为这导致了我们现在的状况,就是很多人仍然无法掌控自己的经济生活,或者推迟许多事情,比如结婚、生孩子、买房、退休规划、偿还助学贷款等等,这些本来应该自然进行的事情都被推迟了。
▶ 英文原文 ⏱
And then, you know, there's the, the tech boom and bust there's, they're just so there's the entire collapse of the media industry. You know, like so many of the industries that we trained in essentially disappeared or pivoted just as we were again, like coming into our own. And so it's that domino effect of one step forward, 10 steps back that I think has led to where we are right now, which is for many of us still not having a handle on the economics of our lives or delaying a lot of things like marriage, children, uh, home ownership, planning for retirement, paying off student loans, all of those, delaying all of those things that would otherwise just be natural.
呃,成年的标志,其中之一就是支持那些模糊地带。他在这方面提供了帮助。如果你最近对卧室表现有些关注,这并不是你的幻觉,也不是仅你一人在意。勃起功能障碍(ED)比大家谈论的更常见,不过好消息是,治疗其实很简单。通过 hims,你可以完全在线获取治疗。PIMS 在线将你与持牌医疗提供者连接,让你可以在家中简单获得合法的 ED 治疗选择。不需要尴尬地预约或者排队等候,只需完成一个简单的在线问卷,医生就会评估你的信息以确定治疗是否适合你。
▶ 英文原文 ⏱
Um, markers of adulthood, support for the gray area comes from him. If bedroom performance has been on your radar lately, you're not imagining it and you're not alone. EB is more common than guys talk about the good news. Getting real treatment is simple. And through hims, it's 100% online. PIMS connects you with licensed healthcare providers online, giving you simple access to legitimate ED treatment options from home. No awkward appointments, no pharmacy lines. Just complete a simple online intake and a provider will review your information to determine if treatment is right for you.
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▶ 英文原文 ⏱
It's straightforward, transparent, and designed to make getting care feel easy. To get simple online access to personalized, affordable care for ED, hair loss, weight loss, and more, you can visit hims.com/grayarea. That's hims.com/grayarea for your free online visit. Hims.com/grayarea. Not available in all 50 states, prescription required. See website for details, restrictions, and important safety information. Sildenafil is a generic version of Viagra. Viagra is a registered trademark of Viatris Specialty, LLC. Hims is not affiliated with or endorsed by Viagra is not affiliated with or endorsed by Viagra.
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▶ 英文原文 ⏱
Support for the show comes from Mint Mobile. We all like to splurge with our money from time to time. Maybe it's that vacation you've always wanted to take. Or that pair of shoes that you probably don't actually really need. But one thing you don't need to splurge on is your wireless bill. That's why Mint Mobile offers premium wireless plans for just $15 a month, including high-speed data and reliable coverage on the T-Mobile 5G network. Choose from 3-, 6-, or 12-month plans and say goodbye to a monthly bill.
注册非常简单。只需在线完成,您甚至可以携带当前的手机和号码。我们有一位同事在使用Mint,他告诉我们他非常喜欢这项服务的价格实惠。要获得每月仅需$15的新无线计划,请访问mintmobile.com/grayarea。即在mintmobile.com/grayarea享受每月$15的无线服务。就这么简单,没有任何隐含条件。需要预先支付$45获得3个月的服务,$90获得6个月的服务,或$180获得12个月的服务。
▶ 英文原文 ⏱
It's super easy to sign up. Just do it online and you can even bring your current phone and your number. We have a coworker who's used Mint and he tells us he loves how affordable it is and loves the service. To get your new wireless plan for just $15 a month, go to mintmobile.com/grayarea. That's mintmobile.com/grayarea. Cut your wireless bill to $15 a month at mintmobile.com/grayarea. That's it. There's no catch. Upfront payment of $45 for 3 months, $90 for 6 months, or $180 for 12-month plan required.
$15 美元每月,不包括税费。仅适用于初始计划期限。网络繁忙时,超过50GB可能会变慢。包含最多20GB的热点。需要兼容的设备。可用性、速度和覆盖范围可能会有所不同。详情请访问 mintmobile.com。如今年龄的变化看起来完全不同了,我好奇这对我们接近中年时的心态有何影响。我不知道。我对年龄的看法非常不同。我认识的一些人已经七八十岁了,但他们看起来一点也不像我以前想象的样子,更不用说三四十岁的人了。
▶ 英文原文 ⏱
$15 per month equivalent. Taxes and fees extra. Initial plan term only. Greater than 50GB may slow when network is busy. Includes up to 20GB hotspot. Capable device required. Availability, speed, and coverage varies. See mintmobile.com. Aging looks so much different now and I'm curious how that's impacting the way we approach midlife. I don't know. I think of aging very differently. There are people in my life I know who are in their 80s and 70s and it looks nowhere near what I thought it looked like, let alone 30s and 40s.
我想知道这如何在此时此刻发挥作用?是的,我觉得这是一个非常有趣的部分。你知道,我们看起来不像我们的父母在40岁或30岁时的样子。我认为这也让我们过上了一种延长的生活状态,不知道应该叫什么。这显然不是青春期,但却像是一种延长的早期成年期,我们在身体上看起来和感觉上都依然很年轻。我觉得这影响了我们所做出的选择。
▶ 英文原文 ⏱
I wonder how does that play into this moment? Yeah, I think that's like a really interesting part of it. You know, we don't look like our parents looked at 40 or 30. And that I think is also allowing us to live a kind of prolonged, whatever you want to call it. It's not adolescence, obviously, but it is this like extended kind of early adulthood where we physically look and feel like we are still quite young. And I think that impacts the choices that we make.
我认为这像我们的浪漫决定一样,会发生变化。我觉得它也可以改变你的职业愿望。不过,从另一个角度看,现在社会对年轻的执着比以往任何时候都要强烈,所以会有保持年轻外貌的压力。嗯,我觉得网络上有一种流行的说法,比如说,千禧一代看起来很不错。我觉得我看起来不错,我觉得你看起来不错,我觉得我们看起来都很棒。
▶ 英文原文 ⏱
I think it changes like our romantic decisions. I think it can change your your career aspirations as well. Although on the other side of that is like pressure to stay looking young because our society is more obsessed with youth than ever. Yeah, I think there's sort of this like kind of meme you see online where it's like, well, and I will say millennials look great. I think I look good. I think you look good. I think we look fantastic.
是的,向防晒霜致敬。但这里有一个千禧一代的梗,他们会说:“天哪,人们觉得我只有15岁。人们认为我还在子宫里。人们觉得我是个受精卵!” 就好像我们为什么对年轻如此着迷?没错,我想这正是我们需要认真思考的问题。可能我们不像老一辈的X世代和婴儿潮一代那样面临一些生存的恐慌,但我们正面对另一种挑战,那就是我们如何看待年轻,尤其是对那些想要随着年龄增长而呈现出真实年龄的人来说,这意味着什么。我们会因此被某种社会形式排挤出去吗?
▶ 英文原文 ⏱
Yeah, shout out to sunscreen. But there is kind of that meme of millennials being like, oh, my gosh, people think I'm 15. People think I'm in utero. People think I'm a zygote. Like I'm so and it's like, oh, why are we so obsessed with being young? Yes, yes, I think that that is like kind of the thing that we have to grapple with, like, you know, maybe we don't have some of the existential panic of our elders, our Gen X and Boomer elders. But we're grappling with a different one, which is, yeah, the way in which we value youth, what it means for those of us who who want to age and look our age. And are we going to get cut out of a certain type of society?
像,一个50岁的女性是否被允许仍在职场中工作,比如在那些非常看重年轻和某种外貌的行业,如时尚、文化或媒体?你知道,就像是Ozempic和肽类药物这些东西,天知道我还没给自己注射过肽类药物。但是,我觉得好像大家都应该去做这样的事情。我觉得这种情况似乎正在逼近。似乎有一种越来越强烈的恐惧感,就是如果我们决定不参与,那我们在这个讨论中能有自己的位置吗?
▶ 英文原文 ⏱
Like, is a woman allowed to look 50 years old and still be in the workforce and still work in, say, fashion or culture or media industries, famously, that value youth and and and and and and a certain physical appearance? You know, in the same way that Ozempic and and peptides like God knows I haven't injected myself with a peptide yet. But like, I guess I'm supposed to. I mean, I think it's coming for us all. It seems like I don't know. Like, there there is this, I think, growing fear that if we decide not to buy into that, then where's our place in the conversation?
这段话可以翻译成中文如下:
“那么,在这之后会发生什么呢?最终目的是什么?你知道我的意思吧?正如你早先所说的,死亡终将降临到我们每个人身上。所以,我们是否把所有的注意力和精力都放在显得年轻上,而忽视了对生命有限性的真实认识?当我们到了六七十岁时,延缓这些成年标志究竟会是什么样?当然,我不是说你应该生孩子只是为了让他们在你年老时照顾你。”
▶ 英文原文 ⏱
And and what happens on the other side of it? Like, to what end? You know what I mean? As you said very early on, death comes for us all. And so are we putting all of our emphasis and all of our energy into looking young while ignoring like the reality of mortality and what it means and what delaying those markers of adulthood is going to look like when we are 60 and 70 and 80? You know, if you not that I don't think, you know, you should have children to look after you in your in your old age.
但是,当越来越多的人不生孩子时,我们的社会会变成什么样?我们要如何相互照顾呢?我觉得这些问题一直被搁置一旁。与此同时,我们只是在集中精力研究要注射哪些肽来保持青春。我很高兴你提到了照顾的问题,因为对于很多千禧一代来说,他们需要在两个方面进行照顾:一方面是年迈的父母,另一方面是成长中的孩子。这种情况是如何影响我们的中年生活的呢?
▶ 英文原文 ⏱
But what is our society going to look like when more and more of us don't have children? Are are we going how are we going to take care of each other? I just think that those questions are sort of being put off. And meanwhile, we're like just really focusing on, you know, what what peptides to inject in order to stay looking youthful. I'm glad you brought up this idea of caretaking, because for a lot of millennials, people are caretaking on two ends. You're caring for aging parents. You're caring for growing children. How is that shaping our mid lives?
是的,我想,我的意思是,我的父亲现在70岁出头,他住在西海岸,而我住在东海岸的多伦多。他最近心脏病发作,这让我重新思考自己在生活中的角色。我不再是个孩子了,而是成年人。同时,我的父母越来越需要照顾。而我最小的孩子才两岁半,他也非常需要积极的照顾。处在中间的位置真的很棘手,也很困难。
▶ 英文原文 ⏱
Yeah, I think it's like I'm I mean. My my father, he's in his early 70s. He lives in on the west coast. I live in Toronto on the east coast of the country. And he recently had a heart attack and I it like really reshaped my understanding of where I fall in the spectrum of of life. It's like I am not the kid anymore. I'm the adults. And my dad is my parents are are increasingly people who need caretaking. But I also have my youngest child is two and a half. And he is very much also someone that needs active caretaking and being stuck in the middle is really tricky and it's really difficult.
这在经济上让人感到压力重重,也在情感上和身体上带来负担。我觉得这跟过去真的很不同。我父母四十多岁的时候,我刚刚高中毕业,那部分生活对他们来说已经结束了。当然,他们也在照顾年迈的父母,但方式却很不一样。我的奶奶和我们住在一起,我们可以实现这样的多代同堂,因为房子更大。
▶ 英文原文 ⏱
And it is, you know, financially taxing. It's emotionally taxing. It's physically taxing. And I think that that is something that is really different, too, because when my parents were in their early to mid 40s, I was just finishing high school like they were done. That part of it, you know, and they were, yes, grappling with their elderly parents, but it was in a really different way. And my grandma lived with us. There was this multi-generational living that was possible because the house was bigger.
现在我们住的地方变小了,不再能够轻易实现多代同堂那种互相照顾的生活方式。我们的居住空间不大,经济条件也有限。因此,这确实改变了我们应对这两者的方式。而且,我想说,没有人真正准备好让千禧一代的妈妈们在育儿的同时,还要经历围绝经期的挑战,对吧?
▶ 英文原文 ⏱
And now we live in smaller places. We're not necessarily able to have that type of multi-generational living that allows us to do some of that caretaking in tandem. You know, our spaces are not as big. We don't have as much money to be able to do that. So I think it really has changed the way in which we navigate those two different things. And let me tell you, I don't know that anyone prepared millennial moms to, like, go through perimenopause while having toddlers, you know?
如今,我们许多女性选择在年纪更大的时候怀孕生子。像安妮·海瑟薇四十多岁怀孕,还有娜塔莉·波特曼,我猜她大概是47岁怀孕。这些女性面临的产后生活会与她们父母那一代有很大的不同。是啊,我之前没有想到这一点,这确实是事实。因为作为产后妈妈或孕妇,你的荷尔蒙水平已经非常高了。
▶ 英文原文 ⏱
And a lot of us women are having babies later and later into life. Anne Hathaway, pregnant in her 40s. Natalie Portman, pregnant in her, I think she's like 47. You know, those women are going to be dealing with a very different postpartum reality than their parents dealt with. Yeah, I don't think I thought of that. That is true. Yeah, I mean, like, the hormones that you're dealing with are so already heightened as a postpartum mom or as a pregnant person.
在这个年龄,比如47岁,很多女性进入更年期。在这种情况下,我们对更年期的激素变化和身体变化是如何影响我们作为父母的方式,以及我们如何照顾他人,真的了解得不够多。你一开始问我,为什么想写这些东西?是因为这些都是很多人没有深入探讨过的话题。
▶ 英文原文 ⏱
That tack on the fact that you are, like, entering at that age, at 47, like for a lot of women, menopause. And so it just is really, I don't think that we know enough about how that part of it, the hormonal part of it, the physical part of it is also shaping how we parent, how we caretake. You asked me at the beginning, like, why do I want to write about this stuff? And it's because these are things that a lot of people just have not tackled.
因此,我认为我们必须直面这个问题并进行讨论,这样我们才能互相帮助,找到一种不至于让我们自我毁灭的前进之路。在当下这个时代,修正主义历史非常流行,人们渴望一种从未真正存在过的生活。我认为我们的政治在很大程度上受到了这种思潮的影响。比如,一些人理想化地回忆起50年代,或者怀念90年代。我们是否在以过于美化的眼光看待过去四十多岁的人?在某种程度上,确实是这样。因为当我想到我的父母在非常年轻时就承担起的责任时,这种感觉尤其强烈。
▶ 英文原文 ⏱
And so I think it's important that we name it and we talk about it so that we can help each other and we can figure out a way forward that's, like, not just destroying us. You know, I think we live in a time where revisionist history is really popular. Like, there's this yearning for an existence that never really existed. Yeah, I think a lot of our politics is shaped by that. You know, people look back on the 50s and idealize it. People look back on the 90s and idealize it. Are we looking back on the 40-year-olds of the past with rose-colored glasses? To some degree, for sure. Because when I think about the amount of responsibility my parents had from a very, very young age.
类似于谈论人生四分之一危机。我的妈妈在22岁时生下了我,然后到25、26岁时,她已经有了三个五岁以下的孩子。哇,所以,你知道,她的生活很不一样——我甚至觉得她根本没有时间去经历什么四分之一人生危机,因为她完全陷入了忙碌的生活中。她有很多事情没办法为自己去做,因为她在成年初期的那段重要时光中一直忙于照顾家庭。我觉得,这很合理,等到像她这样的人到了40岁时,她们可能会想要重新体验青春。相比之下,像我这样到了40岁,只是想着,天啊,我想要更多的责任感、更多的稳定性和更多的成年人的生活。
▶ 英文原文 ⏱
Like, talk about, you know, quarter-life crisis. My mom was 22 when she had me. And then by the time she was, like, 25, 26, she had three kids under five. Wow. So, you know, a very different – I don't even think she had time for a quarter-life crisis because she just was, like, in the thick of it. And there are a lot of things that she wasn't able to do for herself because she spent the – that big chunk of her early adulthood actively steeped in caretaking. And I think that it makes a lot of sense to me that by the time someone like that would reach 40, they would want to re-experience their youth. As opposed to someone like me turning 40 and going, God, I just want, like, more responsibility, more stability, more adulthood.
你知道,人们总是觉得别处的草更绿。我不觉得在90年代时,40岁的人比我们过得更好。从很多方面来看,现在已经是有史以来最好的年代了。但我理解为什么我们会理想化那个时代,因为很多人都感觉在经济上非常脆弱,比如,像婚姻和孩子这样的事情,如果你觉得这些对你来说遥不可及,我理解你为什么会感到不满、生气或嫉妒。所以我理解这种理想化的来源。
▶ 英文原文 ⏱
You know, so the grass is certainly always greener. And I don't think that a 40-year-old in the 90s had it any better than we do in many ways. This is as good as it's ever been. But I do understand why we idealize that version of it because I think so many of us are feeling so vulnerable financially in terms of, like, yeah, not having those, like – If you want things like marriage and kids, like, if that feels out of reach for you, I understand why you would feel resentful or upset or jealous, you know. So I understand where the idealization comes from.
当然,这里说的意思是,我觉得做一个40岁的人,孩子们已经上大学了,需要想办法支付学费,同时仍然要承担相同的责任,但可能在20多岁和30多岁的时候没能每年夏天都去旅行,这种情况你更愿意吗?或者,你也许没有那种感觉,我在年轻时经历了很多生活乐趣和自由自在,过了很多只需照顾自己、不需要为别人考虑的日子。所以在我人生的这一阶段,我几乎完全没有错失恐惧症(FOMO)。
▶ 英文原文 ⏱
But for sure, there – I don't think, like, you know, would you rather be a 40-year-old who's got, you know, kids in college and you have to figure out how to pay for that? Meanwhile, you know, you still have the same responsibilities, but you just didn't get to maybe travel every summer for your entire 20s and 30s. Or, you know, you didn't – I also think there's this, like, I had a lot of living and a lot of joy and a lot of irresponsibility and a lot of years of only having to care for myself and only having to manage myself. So at this stage of my life, I truly have almost zero FOMO.
就像,你告诉我你出去玩了——哦,那不错。你跟我说你周四晚上或者什么时候出去。你告诉我你在参加派对或者其他事情——我会觉得,为你高兴。我很高兴你有这种精力。我不觉得我错过了什么——因为我经历了很多,生活中也有许多乐趣。所以我不觉得自己错过了什么。相反,我知道很多人,比如我的父母,我认识很多年纪大一些的人,由于年轻时要承担很多责任,他们感到错过了一种青春,而我当时并没有这种压力。
▶ 英文原文 ⏱
Like, you tell me you're out – Oh, that's nice. You tell me you're out on a Thursday night or whatever. You tell me you're, you know, partying or doing – I'm like, good for you. I'm glad you have the energy. I don't feel I've missed – because I've done – I've lived a lot. There's been a lot of, like, effing around. There's been a lot of, like, enjoyment in my life, and so I don't feel like I missed out. Whereas I know a lot – you know, my parents, I know a lot of people who are older who did feel like they sort of missed out on a certain kind of youth because they had so many responsibilities at such an early age that I just didn't have.
因为你刚才说了很多让我觉得很有意思的内容,我真想深入探讨一下。我认为第一部分非常有趣,也许这就是差异所在。过去,中年危机是"哦,我怀念我的青春,让我再体验一次吧"。而现在,中年是"我享受了长久的青春,请让我成为一个真正的成年人。我该怎么做才能进入真正的成年阶段呢?"确实是这样,我真的觉得这是其中一个很重要的方面,我们似乎是从两种不同的观点来看待这个问题的。
▶ 英文原文 ⏱
Because there's so much that you just said that I just want to, like, ooh, let's dig into this. I think the first part – I think it is so interesting, and maybe this is the difference. Like, in the past, midlife was, oh, I miss my youth. Let me seek it again. And now midlife is, I've had this extended youth. Please make me a real adult. What do I have to do to access real adulthood? Exactly, exactly. I really think that's a big part of it. It's, like, we're coming at it from these two different vantage points.
有一种感受是,我希望自己能有更多时间自私一点,有更多独处的时间。很多年长的女性会说,她们希望晚点要孩子,或者只生一个孩子。她们并不后悔为人父母或者成为母亲,但会觉得自己想要多一些时间给自己。另一方面,有些人会觉得,他们有太多独处时间,渴望能够更独立,但这种独立由于不得不在家里住得更久和推迟实现各种目标而无法实现。
▶ 英文原文 ⏱
One is, I wish I would have had more time to be selfish, to be alone. And, you know, it's not that – you hear from a lot of, like, older women who say, I wish I'd waited longer to have kids, or I wish I'd only had one kid. And it's not that they regret parenthood or motherhood, but I think that there is this feeling of, I just wanted more time to myself. And then from the other side is this idea of, like, I had so much time to myself, and all I wanted was the opportunity to be independent in a way that I just wasn't able to be because I had to live at home for longer, because I had, you know, I had to put off all of these things.
我本可以更早要孩子,但是因为经济原因没能实现。所以,这就像一个硬币的两面,非常有趣。我认为,令人遗憾的事实是,我们的人生只有一次,尽管看似有无限的选择,但我们只能选其中的一些。因此,我们总是会有“如果当初”的感慨,这种感觉是不变的。我觉得这也是成年生活的一大部分,因为当你选择做某件事时,就注定不能做另一件事。我认为这也很有趣。
▶ 英文原文 ⏱
I would have had kids sooner, but I couldn't, couldn't afford it. So, it's, like, these very two interesting sides of the same coin. And I think, you know, the sad truth is ultimately, like, you have one life. You have all of these seemingly limitless options. You can only choose so many. And so, we're always going to have this feeling of, what if, you know, sliding doors. That's, like, a perpetual feeling. And I think that's a big part of adulthood, too, is, like, there are things that you just will not get to do because you're doing something else. And I think that that is really interesting, too.
本节目由Quince赞助支持。我们都有一些非常喜爱的衣服:那件百搭的毛衣、那条非常合身的裤子,或者每次洗好一定先穿的T恤。这些都是让我们每天穿衣变得简单的单品,而这正是Quince所关注的。Quince专注于使用优质材料,如100%蒙古羊绒、有机棉和美丽诺羊毛,制作高品质衣橱必备品。其风格经典、多功能,旨在成为你每天都想穿的可靠单品。而且,Quince的价格比类似品牌低50%到80%。这是因为他们直接与工厂合作,省去了中间商的环节,让你为品质而不是为品牌加价买单。
▶ 英文原文 ⏱
Support for the show comes from Quince. We all have those pieces in our wardrobe we absolutely love. The sweater that goes with everything, the pants that fit just right, or the t-shirt that's always first to wear out the laundry. Those are the pieces that make getting dressed easy, and that's what Quince does. Quince focuses on high-quality wardrobe staples made with premium materials like 100% Mongolian cashmere, organic cotton, and merino wool. The styles are timeless, versatile, and designed to become the dependable pieces you reach for day after day. Plus, everything Quince is priced 50% to 80% less than similar brands. That's because they work directly with factories and cut out the middlemen, so you're paying for high-quality, not brand markup.
我们的同事,Nisha Chatal,购买了一些Quince的产品。我自己也从Quince买了一条可机洗的真丝裙子。我很喜欢它的舒适感和优雅气质,而且显得很有光泽。你可以穿得休闲一点,也可以打扮得正式一些。我非常喜欢穿这条裙子,无论是去办公室还是在家放松时。去Quince寻找你下一个秋季最爱吧。下载Quince的应用程序,享受专属优惠,或者访问quince.com/grayarea。下单还可以享受免费送货服务和365天退货政策。现在,Quince的服务已在加拿大和英国上线。网址是Q-U-I-N-C-E.com/grayarea。
▶ 英文原文 ⏱
Our colleague, Nisha Chatal, has gotten some Quince. I got the washable silk skirt from Quince. I love how comfortable and also elegant it is and very polished. You can dress it up or down, and I've been really enjoying wearing it, both to the office and to hang around. Find your next fall favorites at Quince. Download the Quince app for app-exclusive offers or go to quince.com slash grayarea. Get free shipping on your order and 365-day returns. Now available in Canada and the UK, too. That's Q-U-I-N-C-E dot com slash grayarea.
节目由Shopify赞助。如果你一直在等待一个启动商业创意的信号,Shopify无疑就是你的最佳选择。Shopify从第一天起就为你提供了销售所需的一切。Shopify为全球数百万家企业提供支持,从家喻户晓的大品牌到刚刚起步的小企业。它的模板和人工智能工具可以快速搭建出一个令人惊艳的网站,无需编写代码。如果遇到问题,Shopify内置的AI助手随时准备帮助你解决问题并继续前进。最好的是,Shopify的所有工具都集中在一个使用方便的平台上。
▶ 英文原文 ⏱
Support for the show comes from Shopify. If you've been waiting for a sign to launch that business idea, here it is in the form of Shopify. Everything you need to start selling is included and ready from day one. Shopify powers millions of businesses worldwide, from household names to small businesses just getting started. Their templates and AI tools get you a stunning site up and running fast. No coding needed. If questions come up, Shopify's built-in AI assistant sidekick is ready to help you build, troubleshoot, and keep moving. The best part is that all of Shopify's tools are conveniently located in one easy-to-use platform.
由于Shopify负责设置和结账流程,您有更多时间专注于发展业务,并且拥有实现这一目标的工具。如果您准备好在今天听到第一次销售的声音,请前往Shopify.com/vox开始您的免费试用。没错,您可以立即开始免费试用,访问Shopify.com/vox。就是Shopify.com/vox。
▶ 英文原文 ⏱
And because Shopify handles the setup and checkout, you have more time to focus on growing your business and the tools to do it. If you're ready to hear the sound of your first sale today, head over to Shopify.com slash Vox to start your free trial today. That's right. You can start your free trial, Shopify.com slash Vox. That's Shopify.com slash Vox.
我在三十出头的时候读了一本书,书名是《但你还是那么年轻》,作者是凯琳·谢弗。这本书探讨了为什么人们常常无法达到我们谈论的那些传统成年标志,比如完成学业、离家独立、经济独立、结婚、生孩子,通常是按照这个顺序进行。你结了婚,然后有了孩子。我得承认,我过着单身生活,我想,哦,那该会是什么样呢,哦,你的家庭,哦,那一定是。到底是一定要达到所有这些标志,还是只要达到其中一部分就好?我们是否永远无法满意,除非完成了那个成年清单上的每一个选项?
▶ 英文原文 ⏱
There's this book that I read when I was in my early 30s, and it's called, but you're still so young. It's by Kayleen Schaefer. And it gets at how people don't hit those traditional markers of adulthood that we've been talking about. They're finishing school, leaving home, financial independence, getting married, having kids. Often it happening in that exact order. You're married. You have children. And I got to admit, like, I'm living the single life. I'm like, oh, that must be so like, oh, your family. Oh, it must. Is it about hitting all of those markers? Or is it about hitting some of them? Like, are we never going to be satisfied until we've checked every single box of that adulthood checklist?
我的意思是,这很有趣。你知道,我真的感觉自己是在成为母亲后才真正找到了自己的一部分。我觉得部分原因是这让我发现了一种新的自私。我意识到我在世上的时间有限,这让我对自己的生命和时间的限制有了更深刻的认识。因此,我只想把这唯一的一生用在让我快乐、有意义和幸福的事情上。至于其他一切,比如拥有房子之类的,对我来说已经不再重要,因为为我满足了内心非常重要的需求。
▶ 英文原文 ⏱
I mean, it's interesting. You know, I really feel, for me, I almost came into my own when I became a mother. And I think part of that was that it, like, unlocked a new kind of selfishness in me, which was that I was like, I only have so much time on Earth. Like, it really made me hyper aware of my mortality and the limits of my time. And so I was like, I only want to spend this one life I have doing exactly what brings me joy and purpose and happiness. And so beyond that marker, I could have none of the other things. Home ownership, whatever, like, it doesn't, it didn't matter to me beyond that, because it fulfilled something for me that was really necessary.
但我认为,即使没有这些标志,你也可以有同样的感觉和领悟。我觉得这几乎和自我实现有关,你知道,就像不用去谈论马斯洛的需求层次理论。不,其实可以谈谈需求层次理论,我们可以在灰色地带进行探讨。但是我确实认为,这就像是“什么能让你实现目标?”的感觉。你明白我的意思吗?是那份你毕生努力学习和奋斗的工作吗?是伴侣关系吗?是孩子、房产所有权吗?无论是什么,能让你感到自己在做想做的事情的标志就足够了,但对我们大多数人来说,如果没有这些标志或者觉得被这些标志挡住了,那我认为我们就会陷入一种危机循环之中。
▶ 英文原文 ⏱
But I think you can have that same feeling, that same realization, with none of those markers. I think it's almost about self-actualization, you know, like, not to get into, like, Maslow's hierarchy of needs. No, let's get into the hierarchy of needs. We can do that. We do that on the gray area. But I do think it's like, what gets you there? You know what I mean? Is it that job that you've, you know, like, that you've spent your life studying for and working towards? Is it partnership? Is it children? Is it home ownership? Whatever it is, whatever marker helps you feel like you're doing the thing that you want to do is enough, but it's just that for a lot of us, having none of those markers or feeling like we are locked out of all of them, that's where we get caught in this cycle, I think, of crisis.
如果你觉得你负担不起养孩子,也负担不起建立伴侣关系,或者因为独自工作在家导致无法认识新朋友,所有这些不同的情况,再加上房屋拥有权的压力,我认为这对很多人来说是很大的一个问题。拥有一处属于自己的住所能让人感到骄傲。如果你无法实现这一点,可能会感到非常沮丧。我觉得这可能会让你开始感到愤怒,并认为,为什么其他世代的人过得那么轻松。他们能够靠一份普通的工资买房。比如,我的祖父有一份工会的好工作,能够供孩子上学,还能时不时资助我妈妈、姨妈和叔叔一些钱。学贷是什么东西?那真的是一个不同的时代。不同的时代。
▶ 英文原文 ⏱
And if you feel you can't afford to have kids, you can't afford to have partnership, or you can't meet anyone because you are, you know, isolated, you're working from home, all of these different things, home ownership increasingly, you know, that's, I think that is a big thing for a lot of people. They take a lot of pride in having a place that is their own. If you can't have that, it can be very frustrating. And I think you can start to feel very resentful. And I think that's where you get this feeling of like, well, other generations had it so easy. Other generations were able to buy a house on like, you know, the salary of whatever. Whatever job you think is like. Oh, yeah. I mean, my grandfather had a good union job, was able to put his kids through school, could even, you know, throw my mom, aunt and uncle a little extra money here and there. Like, school loans, what are those? It was just, it was a different time. Different time.
是的,我知道。我记得我向他们解释过这件事。我的意思是,我都不知道他们是不是婴儿潮一代,我觉得他们可能比那一代年龄稍微大一点。他们在说,为什么年轻人总在抱怨。在他们的年代,情况如何如何。我当时就想,你们是否理解如今买房的成本比现在人均工资高出多少。而且还要加上学生贷款,那些压得人喘不过气的债务。再加上,很多行业要么萎缩,要么转型,要么彻底消失了。你们简直是在谈论两个截然不同的世界。
▶ 英文原文 ⏱
Yes, I know. I remember explaining this to, I mean, I don't even know if they were boomers. I think they were like slightly older than that. But they were talking about like, you know, why are young people complaining so much? Like, in my day, blah, blah, blah. And I was like, do you even understand like how much greater the like cost of a home is than this average salary that people make now? Add in student loans, like crippling amounts of debt into that. Add in then like the amount of industries that have shrank or pivoted or disappeared altogether. You're just talking about two different universes.
就好像,那对他们来说真是大开眼界。因为我觉得很多人,尤其是年长的人们,仍然不完全理解如今情况有多么不同。我写这些内容的另一个原因就是为了这点。问题不仅仅是经济方面的,也不仅仅是那种社会学意义上的孤独感,也包括科技对我们生活的影响。所有这些因素同时汇聚在一起,突然让我们的生活经历变得截然不同。
▶ 英文原文 ⏱
Like, and that was very eye-opening for them because I think a lot of people, a lot of older people still, another reason that I write about this kind of stuff is they still don't understand completely just how different the picture is. And it's not just a financial picture. It's not just this like, kind of like sociological picture of loneliness and, you know, the way tech has shaped all of that for us. It is all of these things converging at once to suddenly make for this drastically different life experience for a lot of us.
我想展望一下未来,你写了很多关于母亲的文章,在这篇专栏中,你谈到了如何保护你的孩子们免受当今世界的混乱影响。你希望当他们面临中年危机时,世界会变成什么样子呢?嗯,首先,我希望到那时,世界依然存在。嗯,我的一部分必须保持一种盲目的乐观,相信事情不会有太大的变化,他们仍然能够体验到每一代人都会经历的事物。
▶ 英文原文 ⏱
I want to look forward a little bit, you know, you write a lot about motherhood and in this column, you talk about your children and how you're shielding them from the chaos that we're facing in the world we live in right now. What do you hope the world will be like when it's time for their midlife crisis? Yeah, that's a, well, first of all, I hope that, that there is a world still when that happens. Um, well, so part of me has to kind of like, have this type of blind optimism that things won't be that different, that they will still be able to, um, experience these, these types of things that are, uh, consistent for every generation.
我真心希望世界还是原来的样子。我只希望我想象的那些不会发生在他们身上。现在,世界是越来越热,这已经是个不争的事实。我住的地方,每年夏天都有很多很多的野火。越来越多的时候,烟雾非常严重,许多地方的空气都糟糕到让人无法出门。想到你不能让孩子们出去玩,因为空气无法呼吸,这真的让人无法忍受。
▶ 英文原文 ⏱
I truly hope that the world is the same. Like, all I hope is that what I imagine is coming for them is not the case. Like, the world is getting hotter and hotter. That's just a reality that every, every summer where I live, there are, um, many, many, many wildfires. Increasingly, there are days where the smoke is so bad that for most of the country, you can't go outside, you know, and that's unbearable to think that you can't send your children outside to play because the air is unbreathable.
嗯,然后你会想到AI实际上在取代工作。当我和我丈夫开玩笑说,哦,你知道,我们的儿子在某方面很厉害,希望有一天他能成为这方面的人才时,我总是会回应说,如果这份工作还存在的话。就像,我会说,是啊,他会是一个很出色的喜剧演员,如果这工作还存在。老实说,我理想的情况就是所有东西都不变,那会是我的梦想。
▶ 英文原文 ⏱
Um, and then you think about the reality of, of AI take, like taking jobs. Like when my husband and I joke about like, oh, you know, our son is so good at this. I hope one day he'll be this. And then I always counter it with like, if that's still a thing, like, you know, I'm like, yeah, he would be such a great, um, comedian if that's still a thing. Like, I really don't, my best case scenario is that things are exactly the same. That would be, that would be my dream.
我担心的是,每个生活方面都可能变得更糟,这真的让我心碎。但是,我觉得生孩子是一种乐观的表现。这是对世界可以变得更好、会变得更好的信念。所以我希望,有一天他们的生活稳定到无聊时,不仅给自己买辆法拉利,还给我也买一辆,因为为什么不呢?是的,是的。我很高兴你提到生孩子的乐观,因为不管你是否决定要孩子,千禧一代常常被定义为充满乐观的一代。我想到的,比如许多人第一次参与政治的选举就是关于希望和变革,甚至在经济衰退之后,我们也能看到较好的前景。
▶ 英文原文 ⏱
What I fear is coming is like that every single aspect of life will only get worse. And that, that, that's something that really breaks my heart. But I have to, like, having children is an act of optimism. It is a belief that the world can be better and will be better. And so I have to hope that, you know, for them one day they'll be so bored with their stable lives that they will go out and, you know, not just buy themselves a Ferrari, but buy me one too, because why not? Yeah, yeah. You know, I, I'm, I'm glad you talked about the optimism of having children because I think whether you decide to have kids or not, millennials are a generation that's often been defined by optimism. I think of, you know, the election where many of us first got engaged in politics was all about hope and change or, you know, even in the wake of a recession and we could see how it played out.
当时的感觉是这样:嘿,我们要快速行动,我们会打破常规,我们要创建公司,我们要实现目标,我们将从废墟中崛起。你有多乐观地认为我们能扭转局面?我很高兴你提到乐观和希望这个概念,因为我觉得这正是每天让我起床、继续工作、为人母、爱朋友以及照顾我社区的动力所在。因为我真的相信,我们这一代的定义不在于不幸、不在于经济困境、不在于牛油果吐司,而在于不仅相信世界会变得更好,更是积极地努力让它变得更好。
▶ 英文原文 ⏱
But at the time it was like, Hey, we're going to move fast. We're going to break things. We're going to make companies. We're going to make it happen. We are going to rise from these ashes. How optimistic are you that we will turn these things around? I'm really glad that you brought up this idea of optimism and hope, because I think that that is what's getting me up every single day and continuing to work and mother and love my friends and just like take care of my community is because I truly do believe that what defines our generation is not misery, it's not, you know, economic precarity, it's not, you know, avocado toast. It is the ability to not just believe that the world is going to be better, but to actively try and make it better.
我觉得我们在这方面已经做了很多努力。是的,有些事情没有按我们希望和计划的那样发展,但看看我们在很多问题上已经走了多远。当然,有些人试图抵消这些改变,但是黑暗的力量是有限的。我相信我们确实已经为了更好的方向重塑了世界,并且我真心相信我们会继续这样做。我对后代充满希望,比如我看到Z世代对工作和界限的态度。我非常喜欢那个流行的说法:“我不梦想为了工作而活”,没错,我也不梦想为了工作而活。
▶ 英文原文 ⏱
And I think we have done so much in regards to that. Um, yeah, some things didn't pan out how we had hoped and planned, but look how far we have come on so many issues, um, that, you know, certainly people are trying to claw back a lot of that change, but you know, the darkness can only do so much. And I think we, like, we really have, um, reshaped the world, um, for the better. And I truly believe that we will continue to do so. And I think, uh, the generations after us give me so much hope as well. It's, you know, I see the, I see Gen Z's attitude towards work and boundaries. And like, I love when, you know, that meme popped up of like, I don't dream of labor and it's like, hell yeah, baby. I don't, I don't, I don't dream of labor either.
我花了几十年的时间才敢把这句话说出口。因为我总是被告知,雄心壮志是一种道德必需品,是一种美德,你必须坚持这种信念。能够坦然说出这句话,正如人们所说的 "坚定不移",我很喜欢这样的感觉。这些想法让我充满希望,因为这意味着,职场将由那些直言不讳表明如果工作不满足自己和家人需要,就不会为其服务的人来改变。你希望度过中年危机后能得到什么?平和。我觉得自己正在走向这个状态。不论发生什么,不论有多少白发,不论身体与以前有多大的不同,不论每天早上起床时骨头有多响,我都能在自己的身体中感到自在。
▶ 英文原文 ⏱
And it took me decades to be able to say that out loud. Cause I was always told like ambition is like a moral necessity, you know, it's a virtue and it's, uh, you know, you got to stand on that. And, uh, to be able to say that out loud, uh, you know, 10 toes down, as they say, it's like, I love that. And so that those types of things really, um, bring me a lot of hope because that means that, um, you know, the workforce will be changed by people who say, if this is not serving me and my needs and my family's needs, then I will not serve it. What do you hope is on the other side of that midlife crisis? Peace. And I think like I'm getting there, I really feel, uh, like I'm inching towards this feeling like no matter what comes, uh, no matter how many gray hairs I find, no matter, uh, how different my body looks than it used to, no matter the creak of my bones every morning when I get out of bed, I'm comfortable in my body.
我对自己的身份感到安心,对自己过去和现在的生活感到踏实。我认为对我来说,生活就是寻找内心宁静的旅程。而且我相信,这次危机之后就会有这样的宁静,至少对我来说是这样的。嗯,Emile Niazi,非常感谢你的参与。如果人们想找到你的作品,他们可以在哪里找到呢?哦,首先可以购买我的书,书名是《雄心过后的生活:一部差不多的回忆录》。你可以在任何购书渠道买到,希望是从当地的独立书店。你也可以在Instagram上关注我,账号是Emile Niazi。好的,非常感谢。谢谢大家的观看。每周,我们都会通过音频和视频为您带来精彩的访谈,以及对科技、文化、政治等话题的哲学视角讨论。
▶ 英文原文 ⏱
I'm comfortable in who I am. I'm secure in the life that I've lived and that I'm living. And I, I, you know, I think for me, like this life is a journey to finding, um, peace. And I think that that's, what's on the other side of this crisis for sure. For me anyways. Mm. Emile Niazi, thank you so much for joining us. If people want to find your work, where can they find it? Uh, well, first you can buy my book. It's called Life After Ambition, A Good Enough Memoir. You can get that wherever you buy your books, hopefully from like a local independent bookstore. Um, and then you can find me on Instagram, um, at Emile Niazi. All right. Thank you so much. Thank you. Thanks for watching. Each week we'll be in your audio and video feeds with great interviews and a philosophy-minded look at tech, culture, politics, and much more.
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▶ 英文原文 ⏱
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